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Hamish · 02-20-2009, 12:36 AM

mankind won't last another 1000 years

towlie · 02-20-2009, 03:05 PM

[THANATOS Wrote:.Pommiewog"]
!n$^-Neo Wrote:
[THANATOS Wrote:.Pommiewog"]..religion does not kill people, people kill people...

But still the people kill other people cuz of their religion....

No, people kill other people because they are evil, they then try to manipulate reilgion to justify it. If religion did not exist, bad people would just find another justification for their actions. Look at soccer holigans for example, they are just bad people who want to bash peoples head in, do you blame the sport of soccer or the morons who love violence?

It is never really about religion, it is about power, wealth, land, oil, etc. If all people of a religious faith actually practised their faith properly, there would not be war.

But religion is a construct of people in order to control the restless mob that is humanity. And there are/were religions which condone murder; Islam and Bushido to name a couple.

Spluff · 02-20-2009, 06:20 PM

To quote Obama: "No God condones the killing of innocents". Heck, Bushido isn't even a religion.

Yes, religion (or more accurately, religious organisation) has been used to control people. But in this modern era (no more crusades, jihads), the only real controlling being done is to attempt to persuade the followers of the religion to live good and morally upstanding lives. The fact that religion has been used as a method of control doesn't really have any bearing on what Pommie said - people using religion as an excuse to kill people are doing just that - using it as an EXCUSE. They would undoubtedly find another excuse if religion were not available.

[THANATOS].Pommiewog · 02-20-2009, 06:43 PM

towlie Wrote:But religion is a construct of people in order to control the restless mob that is humanity. And there are/were religions which condone murder; Islam and Bushido to name a couple.

Out of interest, could you provide the quotes from the quran which condones murder?

And ya, I dont think Bushido is/was a religion it is more of a moral code. And while the samuri may have commited murder it was not because of Bushido.

[THANATOS].-Hades · 02-20-2009, 06:57 PM

[THANATOS Wrote:.Pommiewog"]
towlie Wrote:But religion is a construct of people in order to control the restless mob that is humanity. And there are/were religions which condone murder; Islam and Bushido to name a couple.

Out of interest, could you provide the quotes from the quran which condones murder?

And ya, I dont think Bushido is/was a religion it is more of a moral code. And while the samuri may have commited murder it was not because of Bushido.

What pommie said.

[THANATOS].Metal · 02-20-2009, 07:39 PM

Islam preaches peace, just like Christianity does. Also like Christianity, you have a few wackos that dig through the book looking for scripture to misinterpret and skew until it sounds like it supports their fucked up agenda.

Nut jobs use religion as a weapon, just like anything else.

towlie · 02-21-2009, 05:41 AM

Couldn't find a online copy of the Quran to quote directly from:

Quote:In Islam the Quran permits exact and equivalent retribution. The Quran, however, softens the law of an eye for an eye by urging mankind to accept less compensation than that inflicted upon him or her by a Muslim, or to forgive altogether. In other words, Islam does not deny Muslims the ability to seek retaliation in the equal measure. But it does, however promote forgiveness and the acceptance of blood money not as a mandatory requisite, but rather as a good deed that will be eventually rewarded (Quran 5:45).

On occasions, however, the "eye for an eye" rule is applied quite literally.

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_for_an_eye">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_for_an_eye</a>
Understand I said condone, not promote.

As for Bushido, aren't all religions more or less just a code of conduct with a higher power to justify it? Technically you are correct though, it just depends on how you define religion. And again, I didn't say they killed because of it, simply it was tolerated by it.

[THANATOS].Pommiewog · 02-21-2009, 10:43 AM

towlie Wrote:Couldn't find a online copy of the Quran to quote directly from:

Quote:In Islam the Quran permits exact and equivalent retribution. The Quran, however, softens the law of an eye for an eye by urging mankind to accept less compensation than that inflicted upon him or her by a Muslim, or to forgive altogether. In other words, Islam does not deny Muslims the ability to seek retaliation in the equal measure. But it does, however promote forgiveness and the acceptance of blood money not as a mandatory requisite, but rather as a good deed that will be eventually rewarded (Quran 5:45).

On occasions, however, the "eye for an eye" rule is applied quite literally.
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_for_an_eye">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_for_an_eye</a>
Understand I said condone, not promote.

As for Bushido, aren't all religions more or less just a code of conduct with a higher power to justify it? Technically you are correct though, it just depends on how you define religion. And again, I didn't say they killed because of it, simply it was tolerated by it.

This is one reason why I do not like wiki as an acadeic source. Islam does not truly teach an eye for an eye, eg if someone kills my family I am not allowed to kill his, I may only seek retribution against the perpetrator himself. So the quran does not seek "exact and equivalent retribution".

But it is correct about the blood money, and yes to forgive completely is better for you. But i think most agree when I say that because we are allowed to seek capital punishment does not mean that Islam condones murder, that has a conotation that islam condones the murder of whomever we please, and that is certainly not the case. By definition, murder is "the unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice." (<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dictionary.com">www.dictionary.com</a> Wink

So if Islamic law permits us to seek retribution then it is not unlawful, hence not murder. However, as mentioned before, it does comes down to peoples definition.

By the way, how did this thread get to this subject!!! Lol I need that hijacked smilie!!!