Cash 4 Gold.

[[THANATOS].Metal]

Smartest new business I've seen in a while. Give people a piece of paper that's going to devalue because of an influx of printing, in exchange for receiving a real asset. I wonder if I can invest in these guys, since I don't have enough to make a worthwhile investment in actual gold right now. ) (Kidding.) Saving the ~$900 for an investment in one ounce of gold is the single most prudent financial decision you can make right now. The next most prudent is oil.

Food for thought: A glass of beer in Germany post-WWI cost approximately 4 billion marks. They achieved this amount of hyperinflation by means much like what we're attempting now. By printing too fuckin' much money.

Conclusion: If we hyperinflate, those with the gold will be the most financially secure. If we don't, you can always call up Cash 4 Gold as they will be needing customers.

[MOOK]

Your post contains too many videos. Max. videos allowed: 1

[[THANATOS].Metal]

=IK=MOOK Wrote:The funny shit is that people don't even realize that our money is worse than worthless. It's debt, as the Federal Reserve (privately owned by banks) charges the government a nice interest rate on any new money printed. And to pay for that interest, they loan the gov't more debt money and so on and on and on.... So yeah.. On payday we get debt. yay! Thats why they print so much and it will only get worse. They can't stop printing more, they need it to pay for the money that was printed before lol.

Good vid on it-

I'm fully aware on how the entire system works. If this were on the old forums you'd be able to look at all the backlogged discussions. I've always been a proponent of hard assets and sound money. I've also come to terms with the fact that we're not going to have economic reform with the current administration -- At least, not the kind of reform that needs to take place. So instead, I've moved toward offering solutions that can be used instead of pointing out the obvious.

I would definitely recommend that anyone who is thinking about buying some shit that they don't really need to reconsider, and instead purchase gold/gold stock as it's the most stable thing you can invest in. You'd essentially be buying security to insure that your money doesn't depreciate in the wake of a possible economic collapse. This is also a safe bet because if the stimulus package works, and throwing money at the same idiots that can't run their companies properly in the first place doesn't fuck things up even more*, you can always pull your money back out, and not be any worse for the wear.


*Nobody is going to raise taxes enough to pay for this spending package, that would cause job loss and the burst of the credit bubble (along with the current consumerism approach to economics, causing people to SAVE instead of SPEND), thus having the opposite result of the one it's proposed to achieve -- stimulate the economy. Therefore, the only way to finance said package is to print more money, on loan from the fed, and kill the value of the dollar by way of fluctuation and increasing the national debt by more than the value of the spending package due to the interest rate associated from printing money via a central bank.

Obama's plan is designed to keep your current lifestyle (spending money you don't have) while attempting to regulate how these banks/corporations conduct their finances and spending. There are problems with this: 1) It treats the symptom and not the cause. 2) The government owns the major players in our economy (making us closer to being socialist) and the fed owning them by proxy (Wallstreet owes the government, the government owes the fed).

What would be a far better plan to save the economy would be to let capitalism run it's course, and take the hit. That's right, FUCK EM. This would force a giant spending cut in washington, smaller companies would pick clean the bones of the fallen big corporations (taking their place), and the economy would recover from the recession we're in, instead of the rug being potentially pulled out from underneath it and repeating the 1930's.

Yep, if Obama's plan fails, and you haven't put at least part of your money into solid assets, I hope you spent some time in the boyscouts, because you'll need to be a pro at camping.

[MOOK]

yeah gold is the best. Now if I only had some money to buy some.... ) =))

[[THANATOS].Metal]

Save save save save save save :ymhug:

[[THANATOS].Teo]

heres a fun fact

money = debt

if you want to avoid inflation dont put your money in banks because they create 9 bucks for every 1 you put in essentially, through loans and other means.

[[THANATOS].-Hades]

I remember when my parents had like ~50 ounces of gold bullion in their savings but then sold it like 10 years ago to pay for the down payment on the house (back then $350/ounce was like a decent deal). If they still had it and either kept it or sold it now it would have been worth about $45,000. Oh well....

[-{LAG}-L0CK!]

ok, this is some decent stuff for a nice discussion

metal, did u study economics?

i do have a comment about what u said here:

[THANATOS Wrote:.Metal"]What would be a far better plan to save the economy would be to let capitalism run it's course, and take the hit. That's right, FUCK EM. This would force a giant spending cut in washington, smaller companies would pick clean the bones of the fallen big corporations (taking their place), and the economy would recover from the recession we're in, instead of the rug being potentially pulled out from underneath it and repeating the 1930's.

i doubt it will be so, in the 1930's the economic 'meltdown' was mainly caused by 'capitalism running it's course', and with the way its running now it can happen again. The problem now is that its going the same way, while the government is already interfering, so what to do now? We all know communism is no solution at all, but pure capitalism isnt either. If you look at other countries, what is different?
I would say that it all started with the American banking system, it is different from European countries (especially the loan and repayment system). This crises came over to Europe because of some American banks going bankrupt. An interesting thing and certainly a solution on the long term would be reforming the banking system.
What on the short term? I dont think that there is a decent solution for it, unless u want to keep throwing Billions away. Maybe we should look back in history for it: how did they end it all in the 1930's: the 'New Deal', investments in big national concepts, renewing the roads, ... It will all put people to work, give them a job, give them an income.

Now about those investments Gold really is a good investment, but (good news) it isnt the only one
Also other metals like silver, platinum, ...
Also something, but this is more for 'real fans', are antiques but u have to know a lot about it to start with it.
Another this is personal investment in Green Technology. At the moment there is a secure investment with solar panels. People buy an entire installation to get electricity, u save money on ure electricity bill and use that money u saved to pay it off, after about 10 years u earned ure investment back, and an installation is good for about 20 years, do the math
(and im kinda know some things about that since my father sells and installs photovoltaïc installations)

[[THANATOS].Teo]

the majority of the bad loans banks made here were sold to other banks in other countries.

[[THANATOS].Metal]

-{LAG}-L0CK! Wrote:ok, this is some decent stuff for a nice discussion

metal, did u study economics?

i do have a comment about what u said here:

[THANATOS Wrote:.Metal"]What would be a far better plan to save the economy would be to let capitalism run it's course, and take the hit. That's right, FUCK EM. This would force a giant spending cut in washington, smaller companies would pick clean the bones of the fallen big corporations (taking their place), and the economy would recover from the recession we're in, instead of the rug being potentially pulled out from underneath it and repeating the 1930's.

i doubt it will be so, in the 1930's the economic 'meltdown' was mainly caused by 'capitalism running it's course', and with the way its running now it can happen again. The problem now is that its going the same way, while the government is already interfering, so what to do now? We all know communism is no solution at all, but pure capitalism isnt either. If you look at other countries, what is different?

Pure capitalism isn't what we've been doing for the past hundred years. Our government has been interfering with the economy for a very long time.

Here's some example deviations that our economy has from being 100% capitalist:

It's illegal to possess a monopoly in any industry. Ok, understandable.

Interest rates on margin loans have been adjusted by laws.

Welfare system.

Income tax on the wages of the citizens.

Social Security.


Although we could knit pick and split hairs about what "capitalism running it's course," means, the economic collapse in the USA during the 30's was caused by margin loans being called in by brokers, and banks having the inability to provide the money for the amount of loans being called in because they were playing the market too much. Basically a "noob mistake" by everybody BUT the brokers, because the majority of those playing in it really didn't understand the newly created stock market.

-{LAG}-L0CK! Wrote:I would say that it all started with the American banking system, it is different from European countries (especially the loan and repayment system). This crises came over to Europe because of some American banks going bankrupt. An interesting thing and certainly a solution on the long term would be reforming the banking system.

The actual path of travel went from the federal reserve to the bank of England, and then across the pond to all of Europe. Notice how the countries that took the biggest hits all had central banks. Clue: They were playing "hot-potato" with loans.

America was not designed to have a central bank, and our founding fathers even warned against the potential economic blunder associated with having a central bank with the exclusive ability to print money. We set one up anyway (and illegally). Anytime you have a currency that's controlled solely by the amount in circulation, you're asking for trouble. Now give that power to a private bank... See where this is going?

-{LAG}-L0CK! Wrote:What on the short term? I dont think that there is a decent solution for it, unless u want to keep throwing Billions away. Maybe we should look back in history for it: how did they end it all in the 1930's: the 'New Deal', investments in big national concepts, renewing the roads, ... It will all put people to work, give them a job, give them an income.

We are going to take a hit, no matter what. This is fact. There is nothing that can be done to make everything sunshine and rainbows again. What we're attempting to do here is soften the landing, and buy some time (literally). At least, I HOPE TO CHRIST that's what's being done. If Obama's spending package works it will buy him some time (by keeping the credit and bonds bubbles intact) to safely do things that need to be done, like cancel government programs that draw away from the economy, and putting regulations on how the credit system works for example. If there's no part 2 in his plan... we've only made the problem worse.

Rebuilding roads and bridges creates jobs at home, repairing coal ash dumps before they rupture and effect the ecosystem is another (we've had two spring a "leak" recently). There are plenty more things in this category.This is only part of the solution.

The other part of the solution happens when the credit bubble is either taken down and rebuilt, or outright bursts, forcing people to stop living a lifestyle beyond their current level of income, and have to have money ON HAND for anything that they want to buy. What you have now is effectively an economy based on real assets, because the mentality of "buy now, pay later" is out the window. All of the jobs being outscourced will be forced back into our country because our corporations won't be able to afford the foreign employees. The reverse will happen over time with foreign companies hiring American workers. What you will also see is a HUGE increase in exported American products as a result. The beauty of all of this is, it will happen automatically because there will be no other way of doing things. Our grand children will look back at this whole fiasco as being one giant:

-{LAG}-L0CK! Wrote:Now about those investments Gold really is a good investment, but (good news) it isnt the only one
Also other metals like silver, platinum, ...
Also something, but this is more for 'real fans', are antiques but u have to know a lot about it to start with it.
Another this is personal investment in Green Technology. At the moment there is a secure investment with solar panels. People buy an entire installation to get electricity, u save money on ure electricity bill and use that money u saved to pay it off, after about 10 years u earned ure investment back, and an installation is good for about 20 years, do the math
(and im kinda know some things about that since my father sells and installs photovoltaïc installations)

Yes, hard assets are the way to go right now. Especially something that has an immediate and international value (precious metals).

Here is an example: Let's say you invest in some property. What you put on that property could even be a solar installation, fully running, and plugged into the grid to give power back. While this would be a great investment 5 years ago, it's not the smartest one you could make right now, and here's why. If the dollar collapses, who is going to be looking to buy your property? Certainly not your fellow countrymen, because they can't afford it, and definitely not investers from foreign nations because there is no one to buy the product in the country where it's located. Yes, they might buy the whole sha-bang and import the FACILITY back to their location, giving you a small return, but you're still stuck with the rest of the property that nobody is going to want to develop because there isn't a market for anything.

Let's say you take that same amount of money and invest it in gold. There's ALWAYS an international market for gold, and you can cash out your investment in any currency you like. I'd recommend the Australian dollar, as it's value is currently equal to the US dollar (making the numbers easy for you) and the fact that Australia is in a very stable location... AWAY from the rest of the world, and semi-independent from the European central banking system. This would be a great stopgap until we can get a stable currency going again. The end result in your buying power would be like the way spending American money in Mexico is now, only amplified.

[[THANATOS].Shiver-]

Wall of text. And I read it all lol. I need to learn how to do stocks.

[[THANATOS].Metal]

[THANATOS Wrote:.Shiver-"]Wall of text. And I read it all lol. I need to learn how to do stocks.

Your best bet is to research the fuck out of how you can build a solid portfolio (solid is all subjective), and buy stocks with a LONG TERM mentality. I'd recommend against playing the short-term market, especially right now. Put on your "cause and effect" cap when looking for investments, and don't listen to 90% of the brokers you see on CNN/CSPAN/ and NBC derivatives (Most of them are short-term thinkers anyway).

If you find somebody you like on TV, research their background. How big is their firm? How many clients does he possess? Go on youtube and look for archives of shit they said 5-10 years ago and see how accurate they were back then.

Tip: Warren Buffett invests with at least a 20 year mentality, that is, making a stock purchase and not trading it for 20 years, and he's is richer than all the clowns on TV put together.

[[THANATOS].Teo]

invest in activision. they have 4 HUGE releases on the way now that they have bought blizzard. i know its short term but look at the numbers, both of their sales and the sheer number of nerds who will rush out and buy each title at crazy prices.

[[THANATOS].Metal]

hahahahahahahaha.